Asked by the Customer on 17-09-2015 09:45:35
Question posted in the Consumer Protection Law category relating to Gauteng
Question posted in the Consumer Protection Law category relating to Gauteng
Hi, I own a company in Gauteng that supplies sachet packing machines. Our machines carry a 12 month warranty covering labour and part costs.
In June 2014 a customer ordered 2 machines from me to pack sugar into stick sachets, the total cost was R159000.00 including Vat. The machines were delivered to his premises in the Eastern Cape in September 2014. On the 30th September 2014 I did a 4 day site visit to commission the machines and provide training to the operator. The site visit finished on the 3rd October with the customer agreeing that everything was fine.
On 3rd November 2014 the customer informed me that one of the machines had bent a shaft and that he would get a local engineering firm to make a new one and they would fit it themselves. I agreed with this approach.
On the 26th November I was informed of another problem on one of the machines and a faulty infrared eye mark reader was replaced under warranty.
No other communication was received until 20th April 2015 when the customer requested a new part for the machine so that he could produce an additional different size product on the same machines. No referance was made of any problems with teh machines.
On the 29th July 2015 the customer contacted me and said the machines were not good and he demands a refund for them and that he will sue if I do not comply.
Again nothing happened until 15th September when he again asked for a refund, only this time is was for 60% of the total. His argument is that he has hardly used the machines and when he did they always gave problems and that someone had to watch them all the time and they did not make the sachets correctly. He says the refund should apply because the machines are not working as I said they would. He says that I told him that the machines can run with no supervision - This is not true. I said they would require less monitoring(not none) than his older machine which he purchased from me in 2012.
On speaking to the operator I established that One machine has a timing problem which is causing the packaged material to become trapped in the seal, and can be fixed quickly, the other machine is said to be tripping the power when it is switched on. I suspect this is caused by a broken seal heater of which spares were supplied with the machine as this is a wear and tear part.
I have offered on numerous occasions to help fix the machines but he insists on a refund. I feel that the main problem is due to lack of operator knowledge on the machine.
Once these issues are fixed the machines will work and produce the product as they should.
I would like to know whether he has due cause for a case of a refund under either the Consumer protection act or a civil case. I feel that 11 months after delivery that he has no case for a refund.
And if he does sue where would the case be heard? In Gauteng or the Eastern Cape?
thanks
Martin Gee
In June 2014 a customer ordered 2 machines from me to pack sugar into stick sachets, the total cost was R159000.00 including Vat. The machines were delivered to his premises in the Eastern Cape in September 2014. On the 30th September 2014 I did a 4 day site visit to commission the machines and provide training to the operator. The site visit finished on the 3rd October with the customer agreeing that everything was fine.
On 3rd November 2014 the customer informed me that one of the machines had bent a shaft and that he would get a local engineering firm to make a new one and they would fit it themselves. I agreed with this approach.
On the 26th November I was informed of another problem on one of the machines and a faulty infrared eye mark reader was replaced under warranty.
No other communication was received until 20th April 2015 when the customer requested a new part for the machine so that he could produce an additional different size product on the same machines. No referance was made of any problems with teh machines.
On the 29th July 2015 the customer contacted me and said the machines were not good and he demands a refund for them and that he will sue if I do not comply.
Again nothing happened until 15th September when he again asked for a refund, only this time is was for 60% of the total. His argument is that he has hardly used the machines and when he did they always gave problems and that someone had to watch them all the time and they did not make the sachets correctly. He says the refund should apply because the machines are not working as I said they would. He says that I told him that the machines can run with no supervision - This is not true. I said they would require less monitoring(not none) than his older machine which he purchased from me in 2012.
On speaking to the operator I established that One machine has a timing problem which is causing the packaged material to become trapped in the seal, and can be fixed quickly, the other machine is said to be tripping the power when it is switched on. I suspect this is caused by a broken seal heater of which spares were supplied with the machine as this is a wear and tear part.
I have offered on numerous occasions to help fix the machines but he insists on a refund. I feel that the main problem is due to lack of operator knowledge on the machine.
Once these issues are fixed the machines will work and produce the product as they should.
I would like to know whether he has due cause for a case of a refund under either the Consumer protection act or a civil case. I feel that 11 months after delivery that he has no case for a refund.
And if he does sue where would the case be heard? In Gauteng or the Eastern Cape?
thanks
Martin Gee
Message from the Attorney
Posted by Att. Patrick on 17-09-2015 14:23:40
Hi there and thank you for your question,
You should remember that the Consumer Protection Act (CPA) only really applies to the normal "man in the street" transactions, and NOT to commercial transactions that are entered into between businesses. On the assumption that the "consumer" in this instance is a company, then the CPA does not apply to this transaction.
Accordingly, the client can't claim that he wants a refund on the machine in terms of the CPA.
His only course of action is to sue you (throught a civil case) for some reason in an attempt to get a discount. Given what you've explained above, I don't think that he has a case at all. Also, I don't think that he could claim that there was any misrepresentation that you made, so he would fail there as well.
He would need to sue you where you reside or carry on business.
If there is a part of the answer which you need more advice on, or clarity please continue in this same thread instead of opening a new question.
Att. Patrick
Please remember this is a dialog if you have follow up questions please use the REPLY button and ask. If I did not answer the question you thought you were asking, please respond with the specific question you wanted answered. I hope you found my answer helpful, and you have finished asking your questions, please click on the GREEN ACCEPT button in order to mark the question as closed.
You should remember that the Consumer Protection Act (CPA) only really applies to the normal "man in the street" transactions, and NOT to commercial transactions that are entered into between businesses. On the assumption that the "consumer" in this instance is a company, then the CPA does not apply to this transaction.
Accordingly, the client can't claim that he wants a refund on the machine in terms of the CPA.
His only course of action is to sue you (throught a civil case) for some reason in an attempt to get a discount. Given what you've explained above, I don't think that he has a case at all. Also, I don't think that he could claim that there was any misrepresentation that you made, so he would fail there as well.
He would need to sue you where you reside or carry on business.
If there is a part of the answer which you need more advice on, or clarity please continue in this same thread instead of opening a new question.
Att. Patrick
Please remember this is a dialog if you have follow up questions please use the REPLY button and ask. If I did not answer the question you thought you were asking, please respond with the specific question you wanted answered. I hope you found my answer helpful, and you have finished asking your questions, please click on the GREEN ACCEPT button in order to mark the question as closed.
Message from the Customer
Patrick, how long after the purchase does the other business have a right to sue in a case like this?
Message from the Customer
Hi Patrick,
One last question to clear things up. I reside in Gauteng and my business premises are also in Gauteng. Does that mean that any case lodged by the customer in the Eastern Cape would have to be heard in Gauteng?
many thanks
One last question to clear things up. I reside in Gauteng and my business premises are also in Gauteng. Does that mean that any case lodged by the customer in the Eastern Cape would have to be heard in Gauteng?
many thanks
Message from the Attorney
Posted by Att. Patrick on 18-09-2015 12:49:09
How long after the purchase does the other business have a right to sue in a case like this? --> Three years. After which the matter prescribes.
I reside in Gauteng and my business premises are also in Gauteng. Does that mean that any case lodged by the customer in the Eastern Cape would have to be heard in Gauteng? --> It means that the customer would need to issue summons out of the Gauteng High Court, unless he alleges that the whole cause of action arose out of the jurisdiction of the Eastern Cape High Court, which would mean that he could sue you out of either the Gauteng High Court or the Eastern Cape High Court.
You run the risk of both.
I reside in Gauteng and my business premises are also in Gauteng. Does that mean that any case lodged by the customer in the Eastern Cape would have to be heard in Gauteng? --> It means that the customer would need to issue summons out of the Gauteng High Court, unless he alleges that the whole cause of action arose out of the jurisdiction of the Eastern Cape High Court, which would mean that he could sue you out of either the Gauteng High Court or the Eastern Cape High Court.
You run the risk of both.
Answer Accepted
This answer was accepted on 18-09-2015 15:33:07
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